Tuesday, September 04, 2012

Find the balance...Fill the void... Feed the beast

I really, really need one of these right now.
I mean really!!! I try to be good, but "good" only seems to last so long...
I've been so removed from male contact that I am feeling a bit discouraged, distraught and destroyed thinking this will never be possible for me to ever find the balance, fill the void, feed the beast...

46 comments:

naturgesetz said...

All I can say is hang in there.

Deam said...

I am so very sorry - I know how you feel - I need one, too.

naturgesetz said...

13 onflaimI had another thought or two.

First: God will provide what you need (which is not necessarily what you want).

Second: There is no promise that we will be happy in this life. The promise is eternal happiness in the life to come if we are faithful in this one.

I'm not saying it's easy. Through many years, I've managed to quiet the longing you feel so strongly, but it has never entirely gone away, and I'm grateful to God that there has never been an instance where someone who was highly attractive to me expressed a similar attraction, because I'm not sure I'd have had the strength of will to resist temptation. But I regret that I've been unable to seek and accept "bromances" (i.e. intimate friendships).

May God send you good and holy intimate friends.

Crisco said...

Disconnected, despairing, lonely...yes, I get it.

naturgesetz said...

BTW, the "13 onflaim" at the beginning of my previous comment was the word verification. I didn't realize I was back at the beginning of the comment when I typed it. When it didn't show in the right place, I just retyped it where it belonged. So, no, that isn't evidence that I have gone bonkers, just that I don't proofread.

Blank Slate said...

Oh Beck, I feel for you! I am reminded of one of the Red Cross slogans that often accompanies their mail reminders to donate blood:

"The need is constant - The gratification is instant"

Hang in there. What else can I say? Please accept this blog comment *HUG*

Anonymous said...

Sex is like potato chips.

A burst of flavor then it's over and you are left hungering for more.

Before you know it you have gone through an entire bag of chips and are still not satisfied.

Intimacy is like an apple.

The flavor lingers long after the bit so you can savor it.

One apple leaves you more satisfied than a whole bag of chips.

Many of us think we need potato chips when what we really need is an apple.

Regards,
Philip

MoHoHawaii said...

One of the least expected and most vexing things about being in a mixed-orientation marriage is that despite the constant companionship and love of one's spouse, you end up feeling incredibly lonely.

Your longing isn't about sex. It's not unchecked libido that's causing these feelings. It's a desire to love and be loved. You are missing your other half.

Here's another way to think about it: all those tragic suicides by young gay Mormons don't occur because of sexual frustration. They happen when a young person loses hope of ever not being alone in this life.

I don't know what to tell you. I want to be encouraging, but I'm failing to come up with words. You've made a lot of progress in not beating yourself up about your gayness. That's a huge step.

Beck said...

NATURGESETZ: I'm still hanging! It does not ever go away, but for the most part, it's really okay - just other times that it goes off the chart. An eternal perspective does help.

CRISCO: Good to see you here. Whether it is of any consequence, I hope you know you're not alone.

BLANK: I know that right now all we can share are e-hugs, but I hope someday to share a real Beck-hug with you. I wish it could be now as you rapidly are going through so much. You must "hang in there" my new found friend.

PHILIP: I really crave an apple right now! Maybe it's associated with harvest time. Thanks for the wonderful quote!

MOHOH: You're right on about it being more about connection. And no, I'm not as bad as I used to be. Before, I would call these moments of longing as volcanic eruptions. Now they are quick jolts that remind me of what I'm wired for and still missing.

But, be assured that I'm calm inside. I'm accepting and excited that these feelings keep coming, and I accept them without angst... just longing.

Thanks for still being there for me. You have impacted me more than you know.

Beck said...
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Ned said...
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Ned said...

I think it's time for a hike. Or a hug. Or a hug and a hike. Yeah, both.

Bror said...

Your not alone dude.

Anonymous said...

The seed in man and woman is intended for procreation alone. When it's misused, it brings terrific penalty.

Avoid doing anything which puts you in a position which could lead to "casting seed on stone"; but otherwise love your friends to your heart's content.

You need it, and they need it; and it seems to me, that's part of your responsibility to life also.

"To thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."—Shakespeare

Anonymous said...

Plato identified three types of erotically charged love between men:

1, mundane homosexuality 2, sexually expressed love—both of which he said were destructive—and 3, chaste "pederasty."

The latter amounts to sublimated sex desire—such as was expressed by Michelangelo, Da Vinci (Freud did a psychological study on this particular aspect of the artist's life) and Shakespeare, in the so-called "Fair Youth" Sonnets.

Like it or not, while emotionally powerful, sexually expressed love (other than purposes of procreation) IS destructive; as is, of course, mundane homosexuality.

Therefore, the only constructive and harmonious way to express your apparent erotic love for other men is thru chaste sublimation—which is by no means a system of repression. Instead it is the "heavenly fire" of Divine Love.

Sir Francis Bacon wrote that "it is impossible to join the wisdom of the serpent and the innocence of the dove, without the precious knowledge of the nature of evil."

That "precious knowledge" is contained, in this case, in the above explanation by Plato. Only as you comprehend and understand THAT can you join your seemingly erotic love for men, with the innocence of the dove—because God cannot and will not protect anything which isn't pure. Otherwise, the impurity would become immortal; and that can never be.


Scott N said...

I don't know if the last two "Anonymous" comments are the same person (though I'd assume so based on content and style), but...

The seed in man and woman is intended for procreation alone. When it's misused, it brings terrific penalty.

...

Like it or not, while emotionally powerful, sexually expressed love (other than purposes of procreation) IS destructive; as is, of course, mundane homosexuality.

Says who? (Besides Plato). Can you cite a study or provide objective evidence of your claims?

Anonymous said...

The only "study" that will ever be proof to anyone is the study of their own existence. Read the book of life within yourself and you'll find the truth of those words plain enough.

The remarks were in no way meant to be argumentative nor controversial. And they were directed to the chaste host of this blog—who has the wherewithal to understand their meaning.

One who is asleep in the dream of the senses, unfortunately, has not the ability to grasp this—until the agony becomes so great, they cry aloud "Oh God save me!"

Anonymous said...

The gratification of the senses (no matter what the so-called "orientation") is a fool's paradise; and only fools stay there.



Beck said...

I've been gone for a while... surprised to see activity on this blog when I've been so less-active. Sorry to have missed a few comments. I try to respond to each where applicable.

NED: I'd like that...

BROR: Glad to see you still around. I know I'm not alone, but it sure feels lonely.

ANON: Don't know who you are, and I hope you'll feel willing to identify yourself. If you are an avid reader, then let me know. Your thoughts have given me pause and I will respond in a future post.

SCOTT: So good to see you here and speaking up and out!

Beck said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Happened upon your blog the other day, Beck, in a search for male affection photos (of the strictly Platonic variety). Have been collecting them of late—almost exclusively the old vintage ones, which were taken before the widespread dominance of active homosexuality. In those early days of photography, the physical expression of affection between men (as you indicate a longing for in this posting) was considered natural and normal—and as such, was seen as perfectly harmless. But it was more than that. It gave one a sense of acceptance and belonging, which, like music, soothed the "savage beast of homosexuality," and enabled young men to channel those feelings into constructive behavioral realms. There was little or no danger of this affection being misconstrued and leading to unchaste activity, so it was within the parameters of that awareness, that this "therapeutic" aspect of love was allowed to flourish.

This kind of "channeling," apparently, is what occurred in Lincoln's relationship with his best friend, Joshua speed, who shared the same bed for 4 years!

Beck, you seem very honest and sincere. Hold fast to Beloved Jesus' Love; asking Him to give you the Illumination and Strength to stand against all immorality.

There's nothing unusual about same-sex desires. It's said that everyone has the seeds of homosexuality within them. But whether it's same or opposite sex attraction (or both) one is dealing with, the only Protection for anyone is to be found in chastity.

Michelangelo expressed this idea in a painting called "The Dream," which he created for his great friend and love companion, Tommaso Dei Cavalieri. It shows one being awoken from the "dream of the senses" by a trumpeting Angel, representing Pure Platonic Love.

Being deeply religious, and at the same time tortured by same-sex desire, this "Platonic Angel" came to M. and freed him from the nightmare of his own sensuality.

And he gave that picture to Cavalieri, because it was he who accepted the outpouring of M.'s chaste Love—which he had to give out, in order to hold his connection with the Freeing Purity which the "Platonic Angel" had brought to his attention.

Don't have an online identity; but perhaps could send you an e-mail address at some point, should you desire it.

God Love and Bless you, Beck!

Scott N said...

Hmm.

The study of my own existence leads me to entirely different conclusions than what you've presented here.

...But apparently I am "asleep in the dream of the senses" (and a fool), so I suppose my views can be easily dismissed.

Anonymous said...

Please accept my apologies for writing so frequently; but I feel impelled to try to convey the understanding of Platonic Love—in the original sense of the phrase.

Hadn't realized how far back your blog entries went; and had only read a few of the more recent ones; but just went back to an early entry, and read about your wonderful friend, Tim.

And again my apologies if I'm over-stepping the bounds or intruding into your private domain.

But, in this particular entry you mentioned your desire to kiss this man on the mouth; and also talked about looking at "eye candy" pictures, etc.

In both cases, what you suggest are things which turn the attention downward toward the lower centers of the body, thru passion.

In the case of Michelangelo, vis-a-vis his friend Tomasso, his attention was directed in the opposite direction—toward the top of his head.

I refer you again to M.'s painting of "The Dream"—if you can look it up online. It depicts the Angel I mentioned, with a fully developed naked masculine form; but with a comparatively small cherubic head—or motive center.

To me, this indicates that while M. still had the same sexual attraction to the male form, his motivation or intent had been raised into the Cherubic, or Divine, Realms of the highest centers of the body.

He professed this exact sentiment in several of the Sonnets he wrote to Tomasso.

This chaste expression of love is infinitely more joyous and uplifting than when the attractive-energy is turned downward, to the generative centers, thru sex.

M. saw in the human form, the Active Presence of God—which recognition he used to keep his attention off of the lower centers.

And only by looking away from those lower centers can anyone ever hope to rise out of misery and limitation.

When your attention is on the form of a thing, you are in touch with the "presence" or consciousness of that thing. In the case of pornography, one connects with the consciousness of individual pictured. And the consciousness of individuals who allow themselves to be photographed in such a way, is wholly depraved.

In the case of Michelangelo and Da Vinci, they viewed the human form as a Divine work of art; and their professional art models allowed them to absorb the Divinity which those forms represented—but only, again, by raising their own consciousnesses into those Higher Spheres.

And that is the real meaning of Platonic Love. Not that one doesn't have sex desire; but that the attention is raised up to the Higher Level, by redirecting the magnetic attraction of those desires.

M. illustrates this idea very clearly in his depiction of the Last Judgement. In the group of people entering into the Heavenly Realms, he has several pairs of naked men hugging and kissing! This shows the raising of those lower desires into the Divine.

Anonymous said...

Scott—I don't believe in argument. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

Philip said...

Beck,

Yikes I wrote a long winded response and then when I finally attempted to save it I think I lost it.

Bottomline, I worked out at the gym with my best friend for about ten months and, while the sexual tension never went away, we became closer friends and all that time together helped to fill the void and feed the beast allowing me to not have to work so hard at finding and keeping the balance.

So our little experiment didn't totally work but counter-intuitvely I reached a "new normal".

Allowing that closeness made it easier, despite all the sexual frustration, for me to be gay celibate. I didn't have to spend so much time and energy trying to find that balance and stay on an even keel.

Regards,
Philip

Anonymous said...

SONNET CXXIX

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust,
Enjoy'd no sooner but despised straight,
Past reason hunted, and no sooner had
Past reason hated, as a swallow'd bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Mad in pursuit and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

—Shakespeare

Anonymous said...

Under every human desire lies a serpent coiled. People may want to experience what desires feel like because they "like it." But when the discordant reaction takes place (as it inevitably does) then, they don't like it.

Sex desires are completely insatiable. Recall the story of Prometheus, stealing this "Heavenly Fire," and bringing it down into the earthly realms (or lower centers of the body):

"Prometheus, you are glad that you have outwitted me and stolen fire ... but I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction." [Zeus to Prometheus 1. Hesiod, Works and Days 55 - Greek Epic C8th-7th BC]

Prometheus was then chained to a rock, and an eagle ate out his liver (thought to the seat of passion) every day; but every day it would grow back, only to be be eaten out again and again.

And in the waste of the sex energy thru sex gratification, the courage and self-confidence the individual has already established in the feeling world—is thrown out of the body.

That's why man's virility comes from the conservation of this energy, not from casting it away for a few moments of sense pleasure. The will is absolutely nothing without this energy.

Beck said...

ANON: So, you came across my blog searching for platonic images of male affection? I find that interesting that somehow I am linked to such a search.

I, too, have searched for platonic images of male affection. I have struggled with why I do so, why doing so is even somthing I continue to do.

You have stayed around a while now. Have you read my blog or those from the links? There are many who are seeking a way to understand the path of "virility through conserving energy and not casting it away for a few moments of sense of pleasure" - my case being homosexually chaste and faithful to my wife.

It is something I have chosen to do, yet I have not found complete satisfaction in my choice. I don't necessarily feel 'stronger' or 'courageous' or 'self-confident'. I remain perplexed and conflicted - remaining in a daily battle.

Does that battle make me more virile and strong? The jury is still out...

PHILIP: I really need to get a gym membership - but I'm afraid I'd be going for the wrong reasons. :)

(ANON) said...

Blessed Beck,

Thanks for the fine reply. Have read parts of your blog, and did check out a few of your "linked friends." God bless everyone!

You've said a mouthful in your reply, sir; and I'm loathe to try to address the weighty issue you mention, in a few short sentences or paragraphs. But, with your permission and continued indulgence, will try to make a "down payment" along those lines.

You seem in a difficult position; and don't need me to tell you that, I'm sure. Yet, you also have much to be encouraged by! Be of good cheer! You have stood honorably by your marital commitments, and have remained true to your precious ones. God bless you, Beck. That's a remarkable thing—really! Was thinking in the car yesterday just what you're endearing assurances to your wife along those lines really mean.

And yet, Beck, I do appreciate your "struggle"—let's call it that, not "battle"; because as long as you fight a thing, it'll fight you back.

PLEASE be patient with yourself. We humans see things in the outer world: persons, places, conditions and things, which seem to be solutions to our problems—and we draw them into our worlds.

Unfortunately, we don't know the problems that are in or around those people or things; and many times, end up with a dozen problems; where, before, we only had one.

But there IS a God-solution to your problem! Be assured, my friend, God knows your need—and it is a need—for male companionship of the right kind. And when God brings the fulfillment, it won't contain any problems.

Please don't consider that God is against you in this situation. He is not. Even the Biblical proscriptions against homosexuality per se, don't have to do with dynamically close male friendships (case in point: David and Jonathon)— but with the misuse of the sex energy.

And believe me, sir, you do NOT want to go down that route—as appealing as it may seem to you at present. Those few moments of sense pleasure, would extract TERRIBLE payment from you!

But LOVE is what your heart really craves—Pure Divine Love. And it seems to me, that's what you're ultimately seeking in those male affection photos. And true Love requires no sex contact of any kind!

I have over 7,000 vintage photos of male affection now—and have carefully screened out every one of them that has the slightest hint of sexual connotation or suggestion. And they fill one with great happiness and satisfaction—just the opposite of the what sex depravity does.

You can't really LOVE someone's hair or face or skin, etc. The only thing you can really Love is the Flame of Divinity within the heart of another.

Well, I said it was a "down payment." You're in my prayers, my good man. Want to again urge you to ask Beloved Master Jesus to help you see the Truth about this whole situation. And do ask him to bring you the friend you need. He promised he would never leave us nor forsake us—and He will not—as long as we try to hold to the Light and to the constructive way of Life!

The Light of God Never fails!

Will write again. Please do likewise. Thank you and God bless you.

John

















John said...

PS You can waste the sex energy just as much without the outer gratification—by the thought dwelling on it. You need to change the attention in order to rise above it. When the thought of sex comes to your attention, instantly lift the thought by focusing on some high ideal of some kind. Never try to repress the impulse. It's a highly charged stream of energy, and repression will just cause it to build up, and break out somewhere else. J.

Philip said...

Beck,

I feel driven to post this.

After I had been out for about a year I joined a gay married men's support group.

I was in despair and felt like I was barely holding on.

I met three men that inspired me greatly for the first few months.

However, after those first few months I no longer found these men inspiring.

Why?

Because they talked a good talk but they couldn't walk the walk.

The first man's marriage crashed and burned despite his insisting until the very last moment that everything was fine.

The second man committed suicide.

The third man went back into the closet.

My point is that I was looking for answers and these men inspired me because they were so upbeat and offered the kind of answers I wanted to hear.

I was too naiive to know that these men were lieing to me and everyone around them because they were so busy lieing to themselves.

Other men that I had previously ignored turned out to be much more realistic about the situation and eventually helped me a great deal.

These men often either didn't have an answer or gave me answers I didn't like.

What's my point?

I have learned to be skeptical.

If I think there is something there I get to know the person who professes to have the answers to see how they handle life over time.

I watch that person for a long time until I get to know that person when his defenses are down and the real person emerges.

I have done this with several men over the years and so far none of them were able to live up to their own beliefs.

Now the ones I usually take more seriously are those just as willing or more willing to listen to me than talk to me.

And I am very skeptical of those that rather talk at me than listen or talk to me.

Now the ones I usually take more seriously are those that have doubts.

And I am very skeptical of those that profess to have no doubts.

I am also no longer drawn to those that never question their beliefs.

And I have lived long enough to have heard the same old tired ideas recycled like they were brand new by people probably not even born yet when I heard the ideas the first time around.

Regards,
Philip

John said...

Blessed Beck,

The first step to Perfection is to be natural—for everything is right when the motive is Divine.

So, be 100% loyal to yourself! You aren't acting selfishly if your desire for male companionship is to become more virile yourself.

And I'm not asking you to believe what I say—but PROVE what I say is true, thru your own experiences; as your good friend, Philip, seems to suggest.

But to ask another if they have proved a thing in their worlds, is the most foolish question imaginable. Nothing will ever mean anything to anyone, unless they prove it to themselves. But I do invite you to do so. And I can assure you that what I have told you is true—notwithstanding all the skepticism in the world.

It doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other: Accept it or reject it as you like. But if you accept and apply it, your Freedom is assured. If you reject it, you will remain in your chains. The Law of Life doesn't change to suit the theories of human beings.

John



John said...

PS We have only two faculties with which to solve our problems: our hearts and our minds. And when our thoughts dwell in the lower centers of sexual gratification, we aren't functioning in either our hearts or minds. Where your thought is, there you are; because you are your consciousness.

The senses riot in the average individual, at the restraint of the lower nature. To bring them under control, is not the work of a moment; nor the path of ease, lethargy or self-gratification.

But, as it's been said: He who conquers himself, is greater than he who taketh a city.

The discipline for the sublimation of lust, is described by the "chariot allegory" in Plato's "Phaedrus." The original myth on which it's based, was ancient even to Plato. It's the way Life provides of rising out of the animal desires—and reuniting with one's indwelling Divinity.

Marsilio Ficino, a 15th century Florentine Catholic priest, sought to join Plato's philosophy on the subject, with the, then, prevailing Christian understanding.

His Neo-Platonic teaching was very influential in both the Italian and English Renaissances. The chastely passionate male affection poetry of both Michelangelo and Shakespeare
can be traced to this influence.

Philip said...

Beck,

I remember something else.

Be very skeptical if you are told that if you fail that it's not because it isn't true but because you didn't try hard enough or you are not a true believer or you sabotaged yourself somehow.


Regards,
Philip



John said...

To discourage someone from trying to live the constructive way of Life is the most vicious thing on the face of the earth! No one can say to what extent an individual may apply the Law. Only he alone, by trying may know.

"Give me that man
That is not passion's slave, and I will wear him
In my heart's core, ay, in my heart of heart..."—Hamlet

John said...

Hi Beck,

I know it probably isn't easy to accept these ideas about Purity. They aren't exactly popular notions (as exemplified by some of the contrarian comments posted as a result). But this is the Eternal Truth of Life. No one can side-step It, and be free from the torture of human desire.

This is what Michelangelo came to realize, as did Da Vinci. The latter artist was arrested in his youth, along with a group of his friends, for consorting with a known male prostitute.

Apparently this experience was so traumatic, that he, also, sought and found a way to sublimate his same-sex desires. As mentioned earlier, Freud did an extensive psychological study based on Da Vinci's methods in this regard.

This has nothing to do with repression or suppression—which process cannot succeed, because you but dam up the energy, and it breaks out elsewhere.

Happily, however, there is a Divine Way to get these desires under control, and it is thru sublimation—which Webster defines: to divert the expression of (an instinctual desire or impulse) from its unacceptable form to one that is considered more socially or culturally acceptable.

That's why M.'s artistic endeavors have been referred to as "therapeutic." The same could be said, undoubtedly, about Da Vinci.

Neither one suppressed their desires; but, on the other hand, they didn't allow sex impulses to control them either. With their thoughts and feelings consciously uplifted and purified, they were able to chastely USE those desires to reconnect with the God Presence of Life, which they recognized in the forms of their models.

Shakespeare expressed this same passionate feeling with a like degree of chastity, in the Sonnets he addressed to the "fair youth":

SONNET XX

A woman's face with Nature's own hand painted
Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion;
A woman's gentle heart, but not acquainted
With shifting change, as is false women's fashion;
An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling,
Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth;
A man in hue, all 'hues' in his controlling,
Much steals men's eyes and women's souls amazeth.
And for a woman wert thou first created;
Till Nature, as she wrought thee, fell a-doting,
And by addition me of thee defeated,
By adding one thing to my purpose nothing.
But since she prick'd thee out for women's pleasure,
Mine be thy love and thy love's use their treasure.

As another example of this unselfish purification and the letting go of one's sex desire, here's one of M.'s Sonnets to his great friend, Cavalieri:

If one chaste love, if one divine compassion,
If one destiny is equal for two lovers,
If one hard fate of the one is felt by the other,
If one spirit, if one will guides two hearts;
If one soul in two bodies makes itself eternal,
Lifting both to heaven with a single wing,
If Love in one blow and one golden arrow
The hearts in two chests can burn and tear;
If the one loves the other and neither loves himself,
With one pleasure and one delight, to such a measure
That one and the other desire to reach a single end:
Thousands and thousands would not make a hundredth
Of such a knot of love, or of such a faith:
And only anger could break and untie it.

During the course of their friendship, Cavaleiri was both married and had children. Yet, M's love was pure and unselfish enough, to maintain the 32 yr. relationship undiminished. And he passed away with Cavalieri holding his hand.

When confronted with the accusation of homosexuality, M. merely stated that their friendship was "chaste." That was the only defense necessary.

This illustrates the same idea Beloved Jesus expressed to His Disciples: "When the prince of world cometh, he will find naught in me except I love the Father."

And that's why Purity—in thought, word, feeling and deed, is one's only Protection against destructive forces—"the prince of the world."

God bless you!

John

Philip said...

Beck,

When I am not sure what to think about something that is being said about gay people, I try a little test that often clears things up.

I apply what is being said about gay people to straight people.

If it doesn't pass the snicker test for straight people then the idea doesn't have merit.

If it passes the snicker test for straight people then it might have merit.

It's amazing how often this little test clears thing up right away.

Regards,
Philip

John said...

Hi Beck,

Am no longer reading the comments, nor responding to the postings, of certain individuals who seem hell-bent on keeping you in the chains of uncertainty and unhappiness—except to say this: You'll meet negative suggestions of discouragement from time to time (misery loves company, you know)—but you'll have to exert all the positive force necessary to stand against their onslaught, if you hope to hold to that which your Heart tells you is right.

And that is your certain criterion standard: Follow your Heart. It is never wrong!

I ask Beloved Jesus to show you His Fiery Christ Truth about the whole situation—and to enfold you in His Miracle Mantle of Love's Mastery over all impurity and all that is not of the Light, everywhere forever.

And remember: THE LIGHT OF GOD NEVER FAILS!

John

Philip said...

Beck,

The snicker test works best if you make it as analagous as possible.

So if the idea has to do with being a gay man married to a straight woman then make it about being a straight man married to a gay man.

And if the idea is about that gay man having a celibate relationship with another gay man while married to a straight woman then make it about a straight man having a celibate relationship with a straight woman while married to this gay man.

And then make it more interesting by trying on different scenarios.

For instance, one scenario is the straight man loves the gay husband but is in love with the straight woman.

And on and on and on.

I think the snicker test works because it helps you remove whatever bias you may have about gay people when you are thinking in terms of what it would be like for the straight people in your life like your brother or sister or a friend or a son or daughter or your father or mother.

Regards,
Philip

John said...

"Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve!"

The mass of mankind are submerged, as it were, by environment and association, entirely created by themselves.

And rest assured that God will not go to the tremendous effort of setting us Free, if we prefer, or are content to remain in, discordant conditions.

The Law of Life is that we have to exert at least one third of the energy necessary to cut ourselves free from the undesirable creations we have knowingly or unknowingly drawn around ourselves—or drawn ourselves into.

Hence the statement: "God helps those who help themselves"; because God can only do for you, what He does THROUGH you!

Philip said...

Beck,

Listen to your heart but trust your intuition.

Your intuition is like a moral compass - it will lead you in the right direction for you.

It might not lead you down the easiest path nor the path most others would take but it leads you down the right path for you.

Your heart doesn't always do that.

Regards,
Philip

John said...

Blessed Beck,

As indicated previously, haven't been reading the comments from the respondent who seems to sneer at Purity—but, assuming the more recent postings are of a piece with the earlier ones; very likely they further illustrate what fear seizes upon one at the thought of having their sex appetites and desires taken away. The average individual strikes back with all the fierceness of self-preservation in a cornered animal.

And they are of the animal, these foolish, hypnotic-control sense appetites. And governing them within oneself, is no less an endeavor than getting a wild beast under control.

But the bottom line is that either you control them—or they control you. It may take a while for one to gain this Mastery, or it may not. But there is no permanent Peace nor Happiness until one reaches the point—where this snarling, growling lion of sex desire is turned into an obedient and docile Airedale.

YOU CAN DO IT! Others before you have. And what man has done, man can do!

Don't let others' fear-and-doubt suggestions (which are but human emanations that don't contain Perfection) dissuade or discourage you from at least trying!

If you conserve this energy for six months, the blessing and benefit to you will be so great, you won't ever want to go back into the mire, depth and filth of sex gratification.

I know the Truth of every word I say! May you, and perhaps some of your more open-minded readers, prove and experience the Truth of these words.

May or may not write again, depending on your response; but either way, you have enough information before you now, with God's Help, to begin to harmoniously set your world and affairs into Divine Order—if you want to!

Dare to be Divine!

All the best,
John

Scott N said...

"Follow your Heart. It is never wrong!"

My heart tells me "John" is a pompous, arrogant blow-hard peddling mystic bullshit, most likely to convince himself that there's some eventual reward in store for his own self-denial and self-loathing.

He'll almost certainly dismiss what I have to say as foolish, base, and unholy. He might accuse me of trying to bring you down.

Beck: You will, I hope, recognize that some who have commented on this post (and who have observed your journey for multiple years) have been very careful to support you in your journey—offering, perhaps, the benefit of learning from their experience and choices, but always deferring to your ability (and responsibility) to choose your own way, and never suggesting that their choices are any sort of empirical, objective RIGHT WAY.

It's with that attitude that I share my own experience:

Never in my life have I been as happy and as peaceful as I've been these last couple of years. The "fear" and "doubt" that John ascribes as the motivating factors in my life don't, in fact, play any part in it anymore.

I am a gay man. I find joy in being with other men—sometimes sexually, and sometimes not (I'm hardly as sense- and pleasure-driven as seems to have been suggested in these comments). A two-month relationship with a man last Spring brought me more fulfillment, happiness, and satisfaction than I ever knew in my fifteen years with Sarah. Even in the beginning days of that relationship when physical intimacy did not play a part the emotional intimacy took my breath away. I loved (and still love) Sarah, but I loved (and still love) Darrell in ways I could not love her—and it WAS love, as pure and as uplifting as that emotion can ever be.

I don't believe in god (perhaps that admission will discredit me in your eyes). But I DO believe in GOOD, and I can't help but look askance at anyone who sees love (of a particular flavor) as "bad" and depriving oneself of love as "good".

That's all I have to say—I'll let "John" have as many last words as he feels are necessary.

Your friend,
Scott

Philip said...

Beck,

Seems to be a combination of two old strategies "expressing one's sexuality in a way that is non-threatening to the wife and/or society" and "channeling one's sexual energy into another effort" with some rationalization thrown in.

Two commonly used strategies that I have found both limited and limiting plus a form of denial.

I don't know how much rationalization this combination of strategies requires to keep it going.

For instance, does the wife get to know what this relationship is all about or is the need to tell the wife rationalized away?

Also, how he responds to people like they are beneath him should be a warning to one and all.

I will probably not post tomorrow. Got to watch the debates.

Regards,
Philip

naturgesetz said...

I've been reading the comments (or skimming the longest ones).

My general reaction is that you should 1.) follow your conscience and 2.) try to make sure it's correctly formed. Emotion and feelings are not a sure guide. As Woody Allen famously said, "The heart wants what the heart wants," but that doesn't justify his affair with his stepdaughter. "I want it," doesn't justify anything. "But I really, really, really want it, more than I've ever wanted anything in my life," doesn't justify anything. We have to ask ourselves if what we want is right.

People sometimes say, "How can anything that feels so right be wrong," as they try to justify adultery or fornication, but it's still adultery or fornication, and it's still wrong no matter how "right" they tell themselves it feels.

Follow your conscience. Judge your feelings, emotions, and desires rationally whether the result is pleasure or struggle.

(And once more, let me say that I believe that the desires and impulses you feel are very real, and I hope you can find the balanced kind of relationship which enables you to have emotional satisfaction, true male friendship, without turning into anything that your conscience tells you is wrong.)

*hugs*

MoHoHawaii said...

I guess I'll weigh in, against my better judgment. :- )

I reject anti-gay animus in all forms. Same-sex love is as honorable as the male/female variety. Your homosexuality is part of you, and there's no reason whatsoever to be ashamed of it or treat it any differently from heterosexuality.

If you were a few decades younger and unattached, there'd be no question as to which path you should take. But that's not where you are. There are many, many reasons why a person in your situation might not come out. If you were to make a new life for yourself, you'd be trading one set of problems for another. It might well be that the new set of problems would be more much more manageable than your current problems, but maybe not. That's for you to decide, not the chorus in the comment section.

You are just fine as you are. There's no reason for you suppress your sexuality or hide from it. Do with it what makes sense, given all the other pieces of your life (including your family situation and your religious beliefs). It's going to be okay, whether you stay in your current situation or make major life changes.

I really believe that thinking of this issue in terms of sin is extraordinarily counterproductive. "Avoiding sin" is just about the worst reason I can imagine for staying married to someone. If a person can't do better than that, it's time to throw in the towel. (I believe that you are married for more than just this.)