tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post4724759296382342952..comments2023-10-12T06:29:13.317-06:00Comments on Beck: Still the Jail Keeper...Beckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-37929974616222897452007-09-13T10:45:00.000-06:002007-09-13T10:45:00.000-06:00GECKO: Thanks for your example of "how to do this...GECKO: Thanks for your example of "how to do this". Since there isn't a manual and no "one right way", it is good to share how others have done it and lived to tell about it... even with positive results.<BR/><BR/>I know I worry more than I should about others' reactions. I still am who I am and that should be good enough. But, somehow it doesn't always seem good enough to others - and I shouldn't worry about them, but pragmatically, I still do.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the discussion!Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-49812599079759913922007-09-13T10:43:00.000-06:002007-09-13T10:43:00.000-06:00ABE: Yes, there is no timetable... I just wish I ...ABE: Yes, there is no timetable... I just wish I didn't feel like there was a deadline I had to meet.Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-44174102436319073592007-09-12T22:19:00.000-06:002007-09-12T22:19:00.000-06:00This is great discussion. I also agree with pragma...This is great discussion. <BR/><BR/>I also agree with pragmatism. We're certainly under no obligation to divulge details of our personal lives for the sake of 'honesty.' I agree that after having set a long precedent of 'straightness' in the church, to 'come out' could be totally misinterpretted.<BR/><BR/>However, speaking from my recent experience, selective 'coming outs' have been quite positive for me and my family. Since I've included my oldest daughter and son-in-law into my circle, we talk less in B&W superficialities, and more in the richness of living color: introspection and analysis is multi-faceted and more sensitive. I'm not always the topic of conversation--they are more open about there own dilemmas as well. These are true benefits: I've not only enjoyed more openness and understanding, but it has caused my family to dig deeper into the gospel and consider what is really true in their own lives in order to appreciate what I'm dealing with.GeckoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846438788253129899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-19743833612875712922007-09-10T15:32:00.000-06:002007-09-10T15:32:00.000-06:00These are questions only I should answer individua...<I>These are questions only I should answer individually </I><BR/><BR/>That is absolutely correct - nobody can answer these questions for us. But the good news is that there isn't any rush - there is no timetable that dictates these kinds of decisions. Take your time and do what is best for you and your family. If other people think they would do differently if they were in your shoes - well, perhaps they would, but that is them and this is you.Abelard Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-70946412018862505332007-09-10T13:13:00.000-06:002007-09-10T13:13:00.000-06:00ABE: "Which is more important? Being honest with ...ABE: "Which is more important? Being honest with ourselves; or, not being ostracized by our family, friends, and acquaintances."<BR/><BR/>That is the million dollar question. Of course there is more honesty in being "out", but at what cost? And is it really necessary? And if it is, then when should it be necessary? And who should dictate when - if ever? And should there be judgment if it is early or late or never? <BR/><BR/>These are questions only I should answer individually - and I ask for patience from the "community" as I do this.Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-81361851097949656442007-09-10T13:07:00.000-06:002007-09-10T13:07:00.000-06:00SANTORIO: "...to me it's a cost-benefit analysis....SANTORIO: "...to me it's a cost-benefit analysis..."<BR/><BR/>Some may look at this as a very pathetic way to live your life. I look at this as very pragmatic for those of us in the well past our 20-something period. It is what it is and keeping the costs down and the damage low is very much a valid and honorable approach that should be accepted as working for you (and me).Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-80032283053091552472007-09-10T12:21:00.000-06:002007-09-10T12:21:00.000-06:00Is there something inherently wrong with the way t...<I>Is there something inherently wrong with the way those of us who are still "in the closet" are living our lives?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes! But the fault lies not in us - but in the perceptions of those around us. You mention that the world was a different place when you were 23 - and that is true. Many things have changed (for good and for bad); but, some things have remained pretty much the same. Many people still associate homosexuality with promiscuous sex, drugs, hedonic lifestyles, and pedophilia. And, probably more than anything else, it is those perceptions that we fear people will have of us that keeps us in our closets.<BR/><BR/>I for one believe that there is some validity in the argument that being 'out' enables us to be more honest with ourselves. But, as santorio points out - it's a trade off. Sadly, many of us are faced with a difficult choice: Which is more important? Being honest with ourselves; or, not being ostracized by our family, friends, and acquaintances.Abelard Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-19625274173934452582007-09-10T07:06:00.000-06:002007-09-10T07:06:00.000-06:00Yesterday in Sacrament meeting the theme of the ta...Yesterday in Sacrament meeting the theme of the talks was "honesty." I was thinking about and wrestling with this as I listened to the talks.<BR/><BR/>I was thinking about the fact that not telling all we know is not necessarily dishonesty. Uncovering truth is sometimes a process by which both speaker and hearer of the truth need to be ready to receive the truth being uncovered. This works both in relation to doctrine, but also in relation to personal truths. (Meat and milk and all that good stuff.)<BR/><BR/>The most important truths can only be uncovered in a context of pure love.<BR/><BR/>I don't <I>think</I> this is mere sophistry...John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-63403034489648510792007-09-09T23:10:00.000-06:002007-09-09T23:10:00.000-06:00to me it's a cost-benefit analysismany people woul...to me it's a cost-benefit analysis<BR/><BR/>many people would be hurt if i came out because they would feel (rightly) that i have been dishonest through the years. they would apply sexual stereotypes to me and the resulting misunderstandings could take years to correct.<BR/><BR/>but, you say, they would forgive me, praise my courage, blah, blah, blah. forgive yes, forget, no.<BR/><BR/>and the benefits? at this point it time, i'm not sure.<BR/><BR/>30 years ago yes, today no. i'm okay with that and don't really think about it much. just another distracting "what if"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-73690122478908575302007-09-09T20:54:00.000-06:002007-09-09T20:54:00.000-06:00No, I do not hate the closet resident.No, I do not hate the closet resident.playasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-47172593599925473872007-09-09T13:11:00.000-06:002007-09-09T13:11:00.000-06:00PLAYA: "Homosexuals hate the closet." I agree wi...PLAYA: "Homosexuals hate the closet." I agree with this statement, to a point. I hate that there has to be a closet, but I'm also grateful that it's there to help as a coping mechanism thru this transition period... I hope when you say you "hate the closet", you're not also saying that you hate the closet resident!Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-47230557294562523892007-09-09T13:07:00.000-06:002007-09-09T13:07:00.000-06:00KB: "I think that we all need to find what works ...KB: "I think that we all need to find what works for us, end of story." That's true, but why does it feel like there is a prescribed path to be taken and if you aren't exactly on it, then something's wrong and you feel apologetic or guilty? <BR/><BR/>ELBOW: "I love you, man and I miss you even though we have never officially met face to face." I love you, too. Let me know if you are passing through Utah again!Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-34729960603057344372007-09-09T00:49:00.000-06:002007-09-09T00:49:00.000-06:00Being in, being out, moving in, moving out... to e...Being in, being out, moving in, moving out... to each his own, I say. Really, it's a 100% personal process.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, I still stand by this statement, "Homosexuals <B><I>hate</B></I> the closet."playasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-86248105623155544162007-09-08T22:25:00.000-06:002007-09-08T22:25:00.000-06:00typo...*aren't out of the closet...typo...<BR/><BR/>*aren't out of the closet...Elbowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159487623193963247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-54458773874285172452007-09-08T22:23:00.000-06:002007-09-08T22:23:00.000-06:00Please! Don't worry anymore about being in the clo...Please! Don't worry anymore about being in the closet or coming out of the closet. When it's right, if it's right then you'll know and you'll feel it and if it's not ever in your path then that's ok too.<BR/><BR/>What is really the issue, and what is really important is that you're happy where you are and you feel that where you are is where you are suppose to be.<BR/><BR/>I say...live your life, own where you are, and be glad that you are out of the closet prematurely.<BR/><BR/>I love you, man and I miss you even though we have never officially met face to face.Elbowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159487623193963247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-73147886416199818702007-09-08T20:50:00.000-06:002007-09-08T20:50:00.000-06:00You know, Beck, even though I'm letting people kno...You know, Beck, even though I'm letting people know about me, it's much as you're seeing for yourself, trusted friends who know and not much else.<BR/><BR/>I don't think you should announce at every business meeting "I'm gay!" as a preface. I think you're finding a middle road that works for you. I think that we all need to find what works for us, end of story.Kengo Biddleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04254293120026934427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-2555505639178018762007-09-08T18:59:00.000-06:002007-09-08T18:59:00.000-06:00Thank you for putting that in perspective for me. ...Thank you for putting that in perspective for me. There is a sense of disloyalty to all sides when you are caught between two opposing views.<BR/><BR/>You, of all people know how true this is! Keep shining the light and showing the way. Even if I'm in the closet, I can peak through the keyhole and still see your light shine.Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26181705.post-21219252906657919662007-09-08T17:15:00.000-06:002007-09-08T17:15:00.000-06:00First, I totally relate to what you said about fee...First, I totally relate to what you said about feeling vulnerable to accusations of mixed loyalties... I often have the same feelings about my relationship with the Church. I love the Church and I have a testimony, but I can't join because of my commitment to my partner, so there's part of me that always feels vulnerable to accusations from both sides... Gay activists who might feel I am a traitor for wanting to affiliate with a Church that has taken such a strong position against gay rights; and Church members accusing me of hypocrisy for not leaving my partner. To me there is no treason and no hypocrisy -- only loyalty and integrity. It's the rest of the world that won't let me be true both to my partner and my Church. But in my heart of hearts there is no conflict.<BR/><BR/>You are caught in that same crossfire. The problem is not your unwillingness to be true to yourself, it is the world's inability to deal with you in all your beauty and complexity.John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.com